Web Payments Community Group Telecon

Minutes for 2014-02-19

Agenda
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments/2014Feb/0092.html
Topics
  1. Web Payments Workshop
  2. Web Payments Introductory Documents
  3. Update on the Google Summer of Code 2014
  4. Web Commerce API
  5. Persona and Web Identity Spec
Resolutions
  1. Start an official vote on adopting the Web Commerce API as a work item for the Web Payments Community Group.
Action Items
  1. Manu to ask Web Payments Workshop Program Committee to list potential BoF venues.
Chair
Manu Sporny
Scribe
Joseph Potvin
Present
Joseph Potvin, Manu Sporny, Brent Shambaugh, Dave Longley, David I. Lehn
Audio Log
Joseph Potvin is scribing.
Manu Sporny: Natasha may join in later to talk about the Web/Mobile payments task force
Joseph Potvin: Is there a quick update on any organizational things based on Web Payments Workshop. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]

Topic: Web Payments Workshop

Manu Sporny: Paper reviews are due by the end of March. I think we're currently overbooked for the workshop - lots and lots of interest.
Joseph Potvin: Could we have a BoF? Would they be against it in principle? If there are any side meetings, could someone locate a nice cafe nearby if it doesn't interfere w/ the main agenda. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Joseph Potvin: A BoF would be great in principles, but the venue doesn't support it. Side meetings at some cafe nearby? Maybe we can find a venue adjacent to the Palais - pub, cafe. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
ACTION: Manu to ask Web Payments Workshop Program Committee to list potential BoF venues.
Manu Sporny: The workshop is single track, nobody is going to want to leave the venue for a BoF. [scribe assist by Brent Shambaugh]

Topic: Web Payments Introductory Documents

Manu Sporny: We've not had a number of in-depth conversations with people in economics, writing, programming that want to get involved, but not sure how.
Manu Sporny: We have lots of specs, hard to locate an entry point - we need better documentation
Manu Sporny: We don't have an overview or fucntional flow document - that could be what they work on.
Manu Sporny: Need this for entry-points as well as big-picture, those could be other work items.
Manu Sporny: Any other ideas? We have 3 volunteers, need an outline, the volunteers can fill it out
Manu Sporny: Brent, weren't you one of the volunteers for this?
Brent Shambaugh: Going thorugh things right now, and will try to map this.
Manu Sporny: Ok great, we'll do that as a starting point, do you want us to draft an outline? [scribe assist by Dave Longley]
Brent Shambaugh: Would it help if i just went ahead and drafted the outline? [scribe assist by Dave Longley]
Manu Sporny: If you could draft an outline based on what you've read that would be very helpful, you have a fresh set of eyes on this and we've been too entrenched for too long. [scribe assist by Dave Longley]
Manu Sporny: That would be great if you could do that with your new perspective, and then just post that to the mailing list and we'll discuss it [scribe assist by Dave Longley]
Manu Sporny: Anything else on the intro docs? [scribe assist by Dave Longley]

Topic: Update on the Google Summer of Code 2014

Manu Sporny: We submitted the CG as a mentor organization to the Google Summer of Code
Manu Sporny: Wide variety of possible topics, 3 categories (novices, intermediate, advanced)
Manu Sporny: Students can apply, salary is about $5500 to pay for expenses to work on the project over the summer
Manu Sporny: All WPCG projects are open source, open standard
Manu Sporny: We just wait now to see if we're approved.
Manu Sporny: GSoC organizations will be announced on Feb 24.
Manu Sporny: If accepted, we need to make some noise about our projects so we can recruit students.

Topic: Web Commerce API

Manu Sporny: This is the resurrected Mozpay API that we covered a few weeks ago.
Manu Sporny: Based on our consultation, the workshop focus may be on payments request and digital receipts, this spec describes how we can do that.
Manu Sporny: This allows all proprietary player to stay as-is, but also new entrants into the marketplace.
Manu Sporny: The approach seems to work for proprietary payment providers, cryptocurrency wallets, and open payment solutions, but it is not yet an official work item
Manu Sporny: We would need to vote on this as a WPCG work item
Joseph Potvin: How did we manage to leave it off the charter vote? [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny: Mozilla retracted it before we voted on the charter, we resurrected it a week after we voted on the charter. It was just bad timing, which is funny because this could be the most important spec we do.
Manu Sporny: It was too browser specific at first, but others determined that it could be made generic, which we did.
Manu Sporny: Mozilla is okay with using it again, and will decide later on support.
Manu Sporny: Can be later implemented in browsers, doesn't require browser buy-in at first.
Dave Longley: I'm in support of including it as a work item.
PROPOSAL: Start an official vote on adopting the Web Commerce API as a work item for the Web Payments Community Group.
Joseph Potvin: +1
Dave Longley: +1
Manu Sporny: +1
Brent Shambaugh: +1
David I. Lehn: +1
RESOLUTION: Start an official vote on adopting the Web Commerce API as a work item for the Web Payments Community Group.
Brent Shambaugh: I'm concerned about there being so much focus on Bitcoin that PaySwarm may be lost in the excitement, what does PaySwarm provide that Bitcoin doesn't? [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny: Basically, it standardizes the payment process for the web. The payment request and the response format. Bitcoin doesn't do that. It also promotes a solid identity solution for the Web, which Bitcoin doesn't have either. How to list assets for sale in a decentralized way, how to provide machine-readable offers of sale (listings). How to do digital receipts, there's a lot that it does that Bitcoin doesn't because PaySwarm is more high-level than these other protocols. It deals w/ the commerce layer, not the payment clearing layer. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: Right now, there is no standard way to initiate a payment and know that the payment happened, that's basically what PaySwarm provides. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]

Topic: Persona and Web Identity Spec

Manu Sporny: Mozilla put out something confusing, an After Action Review, which they typically only do after they tombstone a product.
Manu Sporny: Idea was a simple web login mechanism, things going well, pushed it for a while, but then leaders left Mozilla, and now there is a worry that Mozilla is going to pull the rest of the developers off of the project. I don't know anything yet, but it seems suspicious and is typically what Mozilla does before they wind down a project.
Manu Sporny: This is an issue for Web Payments because we depends on Persona for a clean login solution.
Manu Sporny: The customer's payments provider is identified with the login.
Manu Sporny: If the technology is orphaned, we'll need an alternative solution.
Manu Sporny: Mozilla probably has a continuity plan, but we just don't know what it is yet.
Manu Sporny: We've elaborated in the Web Identity spec a bit here: https://web-payments.org/specs/source/web-identity/
Manu Sporny: ID is composed of data, and some assertions (some 3rd party validates your data, with a digital signature)
Manu Sporny: Identity validation is very important to trusted payments, and login is very important to ease of use. We also need to talk about the name.
Manu Sporny: Web Identity and WebID are different specs, the differences are confusing some folks.
Manu Sporny: The proposal would be to change the title of the "Web Identity" spec to "Identity Assertions" [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Joseph Potvin: If the spec goes to "identity assertions", is this an assertion validation spec in general? Maybe we should take "identity" out of the title? [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: We want to be careful about scope creep, the general technology can be used for assertions on just about anything. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Joseph Potvin: I wouldn't expand the scope of work, but the choice of the name doesn't mean we need to increase the scope. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: Maybe we could say "Entity Assertions"? Maybe identifier for an entity? Depends on where we want to go with that. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Joseph Potvin: Identity could get us into problems w/ metadata that goes into identity. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: Web Assertions is okay - how to make assertions on things on the Web. Maybe people could say that assertions are too broad? Validation is the wrong word? [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: It's more like you're verifying / validating? [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Joseph Potvin: Wouldn't you get Identity Assertions anyway? [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny: We could say that this is just about identity - "Identity Assertions" and say that others can use this same approach for other technologies. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: Yeah, I guess we can do that. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Joseph Potvin: Does this have to be limited to a person? What about a corporation? [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Joseph Potvin: A thing?
Manu Sporny: Yes, included
David I. Lehn: bike Shed... resource assertions? does that fit into the semantic terminology better?
Dave Longley: Yes, we're talking about "Entity Assertions" [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: But we may just want to use a more understandable name for the spec title. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: Entities with URL
Dave Longley: I think identity assertions says what the spec is for? [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Brent Shambaugh: How does the identity data get handled?
Manu Sporny: We say there has to be a way to read/write data to that entity, and to request that info
Manu Sporny: Data lives with your service provider, somewhwere on the web, document you are served, for example
Manu Sporny: Yeah, so for example - https://dev.payswarm.com/i/manu [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny: The spec outlines how the requests for the info are issued and answered, under what conditions
Manu Sporny: The person who owns that identity controls the access to the entity's info
Manu Sporny: So do we have a proposal to rename the spec?
David I. Lehn: I still think the "Identity Assertions" name is strange... seems like there are a lot of pieces to this. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Joseph Potvin: I think that it might be bad that people associated "identity" with "people". [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny: I think that's a good thing. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: I think that's an advantage... isn't it? [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: A more generic name "Entity Assertion" will be more difficult. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: We could talk about "Identity Exchange" or some other synonym to "read/write"? [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: The spec does provide more than that - it's a readable / writable identity. Part of that is being able to write stuff to the identity. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
David I. Lehn: What's the scope of the spec? [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: Creating a readable/writable identity where pieces of that identity can be modified. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: There's nothing to say that people can add things to do this in another way. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: We should get the message across about "Read, write, verify identity" [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Brent Shambaugh: We Could do Agent Identity or Agent Assertion, is that vague?
Manu Sporny: Yeah, anything w/ "Agent" typically means "software" wrt. Web technologies, so it might be confusing.
Manu Sporny: Ok, we're out of time and we don't have consensus. Let's think about this offline, perhaps something better will come to us.

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