Web Payments Community Group Telecon

Minutes for 2014-10-01

  1. Status of Web Payments Use Cases Vote
  2. Agenda Bashing for W3C TPAC
Manu Sporny
Dave Longley
Dave Longley, Manu Sporny, Adrian Hope-Bailie, David I. Lehn, Evgeny Vinogradov
Audio Log
Dave Longley is scribing.
Manu Sporny: Call should be short today; we basically want to propose an agenda for W3C TPAC.

Topic: Status of Web Payments Use Cases Vote

Manu Sporny: The call for votes went out last Friday, we have six people voting so far, so six different organizations. We should send out a reminder this week to make sure everyone tries to vote. So it closes Oct 10th, which is the same day the Web Payments Activity vote closes. We're a couple of days into the vote, we've gotten really good feedback so far. Adrian, your feedback was really good.
Manu Sporny: We'll may wait until after the vote to post all the feedback together.
Manu Sporny: Any questions or concerns about the votes or use cases so far?
Manu Sporny: We'll send out a reminder email to everyone in the group as well as letting every other org we've been in contact with (250+) to let them know what's going on with the two votes (Activity Charter and CG)
Manu Sporny: It seems some orgs are completely unaware the vote is happening or they've missed it.

Topic: Agenda Bashing for W3C TPAC

Manu Sporny: We have eight hours of meeting time split over two days, two hours in the morning and two in the afternoon...
Manu Sporny: There are ad-hoc meetings that can happen, so for example, on Monday and Tuesday there will be ad-hoc meetings, between the official Web Payments IG meeting.
Manu Sporny: Two hours of IG meeting, 4 hours of ad-hoc meetings, and then 2 hours of IG meeting again.
Manu Sporny: The Web Payments IG group is there on Tuesday, see link in IRC.
Manu Sporny: There's a list of people who have registered, but since W3C was late getting the item there on the agenda, people missed it when they registered so we have to tell those people to go back and re-register.
Manu Sporny: So 9am-11am is the start of the IG meeting from 11am-3pm ... we could create identity credentials group meetings as a break out session and then the afternoon is more IG meetings.
Manu Sporny: I'm assuming that we're going to be doing payments use cases for most of the two days in the IG.
Manu Sporny: I'm assuming we'll be doing credentials use cases in the identity meetings.
Manu Sporny: I'm expecting a lot of time will be spent discussing use cases and the implications around those.
Adrian Hope-Bailie: Am I wrong that there is time set aside on Mon and Tues?
Manu Sporny: Is there anything else we should be focusing on other than use cases, such as a roadmap, doing demos, etc.
Manu Sporny: There's a specific time set aside Mon and Tue for the web payments IG which is member only and that's 9-11am and 3-5/6pm. And that's for the official work. The non-official work can happen elsewhere.
Manu Sporny: I think it would be smart for us to do one break out session for identity/credentials on one day and one for web payments on another day so people who aren't in the IG can attend.
Manu Sporny: If there are orgs that want to attend but can't, then we might want to have another session (web payments) in the break out room.
Adrian Hope-Bailie: Having some time set aside for credentials/identity is probabaly a good idea
Adrian Hope-Bailie: +1
Manu Sporny: Adrian, will you be at TPAC?
Manu Sporny: The W3C TPAC thing is a pretty important meeting to make sure we bring everyone up to speed on what's been going on, so what's the general question ...
Adrian Hope-Bailie: I'm talking to my board about becoming a W3C member, and then attending W3C TPAC. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: Maybe we should do some demos. Show people the direction that this stuff could head in. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: IGs going to think about which WGs should be created. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: The IGs going to create WGs for the identity work? [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny: Yes, that's the plan.
Dave Longley: We need to make sure the W3C members in the IG are well aware that the identity work has been split off in the CGs [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: They need to understand that we still need that work to happen officially. We should also talk about Roadmaps. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: We should talk about stuff that's out of scope as well. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: Like, for example, decentralized clearing solutions - out of scope for version 1. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: We should talk about a roadmap - we have a lot of these things on the radar, they have been discussed, there is a plan. We want the work to be done in an iterative process. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny: This is bringing up the concept that we should have a roadmap discussion
Manu Sporny: Start with a brief background/history on what got us to where we are today.
Manu Sporny: Do a quick overview of the use cases w/o discussion.
Adrian Hope-Bailie: Identify which of the payments use cases are dependent on the credentials work and which ones aren't. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: We might want to mention a roadmap fairly early, people might have questions on things on the roadmap. Maybe we can direct the discussion on things that should be handled in first version of the work. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: We can discuss this as historical background - these are the things that came up, these are the ways they were split out, these are for future versions, etc. We could then go into use cases. We need to make sure that people don't feel this is set in stone, it's just how the work has evolved. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny: Ok, so first 2 hour chunk is: 1. Overview of W3C and the process, 2. History of Web Payments at W3C and CG work, 3. Where we are now, what we need to accomplish at W3C TPAC 4. Potential Road Map
Dave Longley: Somewhere in there, we'll be talking about splitting use cases into version 1, and "later" [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: We found that there are two general areas that we need to work on - payments stuff and identity stuff. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: The breakout session has more to do w/ whether or not people are available. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny: We need to have two break out sessions, identity+payments, for the people not deeply involved in the IG work.
Manu Sporny: We hold the payments thing on Tuesday in the middle of the day, and that will be a basic overview for people not directly involved in the work; a high-level overview of what's happened over the last two days, here are some resources to track the work, etc.
Manu Sporny: I was hoping the break out session would try and summarize what's happening in the IG.
Manu Sporny: I think the only way we can schedule this is credentials break out on day one and web payments break out on day two.
Manu Sporny: We could do identity on both Monday and Tuesday and payments on Wednesday.
Dave Longley: As long as there are enough people for payments on wednesday, that aren't going to miss out - most of focus will be on payments in official group. There is less time for the identity stuff to be discussed. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny: That will give us four hours of time to do face-to-face on identity and around those two meetings there will be payments, 8 hours total on payments.
Manu Sporny: On wednesday we could have a wrap up session for those who couldn't attend on Monday and Tuesday.
Manu Sporny: The Internet Identity Workshop happens on Wednesday at the same time we could do a breakout session at TPAC, which is problematic.
Dave Longley: Will there be a significant number wanting to attend a breakout session. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: Do you need to squeeze anything in on Tuesday? [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: Only official members can come into IG meeting - all Web Payments talk will happen Mon/Tue? [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny: Yes, W3C TPAC attendance is on a bell curve - most everyone will be there on Wednesday.
Manu Sporny: So Payments IG meeting Mon/Tues, in between will be break out sessions for Identity/Credentials, and then quick overviews of the payments and identity work on Wednesday in break out session starting in the morning.
Adrian Hope-Bailie: +1
Manu Sporny: I would imagine the Credentials stuff will be formatted in a way that matches the Payments stuff, so we'll do a history/etc.
Manu Sporny: Intro to W3C, history of what got us here, we have a set of use cases, and here's the roadmap.
Manu Sporny: The second day will be just use cases, focusing/refining, getting consensus.
Manu Sporny: That will be it for the credentials stuff.
Manu Sporny: Monday (intro, etc.), Tuesday (use cases for 2 hours)
Manu Sporny: Are we going to be able to do demos at W3C TPAC? [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: The current system we have would be simpler to demo than the new system that has regulatory stuff in it. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny: Monday, 2nd Web Payments IG session - maybe start off w/ use cases, then show demos.
Manu Sporny: A lot of people will be introduced to these use cases for the first time.
Manu Sporny: Because their orgs have prohibited involvement until official work starts.
Adrian Hope-Bailie: How much time does it take to talk through and demonstrate the use case? [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Adrian Hope-Bailie: There are a number of use cases that we can't demo yet, I'm sure. For illustration of what the use case is intended to address, a demo is very useful. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: Something that we should probably do is order the use cases in demo-able order. An alternative would be to discuss those use cases and show a demo once, that would allow people to understand how those use cases could be addressed. Then we could keep going through the demo, that would be one way to speed it up. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Adrian Hope-Bailie: If we show a demo, it's not the only way to solve the use case, it's one way to solve the use case. We might want to have discussion first and then show the demo. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny: If we show the demo first they may get overly hung up on the demo and if we do it last they might not get the use case until they've seen the demo, so tradeoffs.
Adrian Hope-Bailie: Maybe this needs to be done on a case-by-case basis. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny: In general, there will be some set of demos, we don't know if they'll be done first or inline w/the discussion around the use cases.
Manu Sporny: What might be helpful if we do a wrap up and say everything between the intro and the wrap up will be discussion around use cases and roadmap and things like that.
Manu Sporny: Let's jump to Tuesday afternoon... what do we want to put on the agenda in terms of wrap up items are concerned.
Adrian Hope-Bailie: What's required for the IG to continue? What are the expected steps after TPAC? [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny: We also need to give everyone an intro to the specs we have so far, they are proposals, not set in stone, but someone has to start and provide the IP to start the standardization work (that's before the wrap up).
Manu Sporny: We can talk about the next steps with Stephane Boyera and the two chairs of the IG.
Manu Sporny: We can identify what we need to do and where we need to go, etc. and that's a group discussion, maybe committing to some kind of time line. We'll have a technical roadmap and a procedural time line -- and we can talk about what the next year looks like and what happens in the next year, what documents are expected to be delivered, etc. things like that.
Manu Sporny: The other thing we should discuss in the wrap up is recruiting, more W3C members to participate in the work, we have to take recruiting pretty seriously because everyone's time is split so much in W3C so we need to get orgs to join and assign engineers.
Adrian Hope-Bailie: Does anyone have a prioritized list of candidates? People to get involved, etc.?
Manu Sporny: Yeah, I keep a list, maybe I should publish that on the wiki -- to list all the orgs we want to participate and our current status in outreach to them.
Manu Sporny: We need to be careful not to get in the way of W3C communications.
Adrian Hope-Bailie: It's important that we reach out to many of these organizations, especially the large ones, to make sure they know what's going on. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny: Agreed, and we've been doing that for the last three years which is one reason we've got so many people involved in the workshop, etc.
Adrian Hope-Bailie: With the new /official/ group, we should do more outreach. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny: We're at the top of the hour -- let's take everything we've discussed on this call, I'll try and put a proposed agenda together and we can get feedback from the CG to refine/get objections and then pass to chairs and W3C staff.
David I. Lehn: Thanks, bye.
Evgeny Vinogradov: Bye

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